E12: Senegalese-Motherhood - Balancing Nurture, Discipline, & Values

Have you ever wondered about the unique challenges of raising children in the United States while keeping them connected to their Senegalese roots? Our guest for this episode, Codou Diop, is here to shed light on exactly that! Join us as we explore the complexities of Senegalese motherhood, the balancing act of holding onto traditions while living in a foreign land, and the pressure to adapt parenting styles to accommodate both cultures.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hello, hello listeners, and welcome back to the Genmama podcast, where we talk about all things postpartum motherhood, pregnancy, tips and tricks and more, all from a Senegalese, american perspective. I'm super excited for today's episode because I have a guest speaker with me and I'm not even going to take too much of your time. I just want to give her the opportunity to introduce herself so we can get right into the conversation. I'm super super excited. Kod, do you want to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:27

Yes, hi, I said to hello to all your listeners. Thank you for having me on your podcast. My name is Kodoo Kodoo Job and, yeah, I am a mom of two. I am Senegalese, obviously, and I live in Austin, texas, and I'm very happy to be a guest on your podcast today.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Thank you. How are you doing with that Austin heat?

Speaker 2: 0:58

Oh man, normally we're used to it. This is the only place I've lived in since I moved to the US back in 2008. I think, yeah, 2008. So I should be used to it. But this year, especially this year, was the hottest year, I'd say, since 2011. That's the only year where it was this hot or even hotter. But, yeah, it's bad. It's really so hard, but I mostly stay home, like I'm either home, wherever I have my AC, or I'm in the car, but when I have to be outside, my son started soccer again, like the new season a couple of weeks ago. So being at games in this heat is so hard, but it's almost over. Usually, around Halloween is when it cools down, so we have like at least probably a month or a month and a half until it cools down.

Speaker 2: 1:56

But yeah, it's bad.

Speaker 1: 1:58

I feel like this year has been bad all around. Even Atlanta has hot days.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Yeah, it's been hot a little bit. Like everywhere, it's been hot, for sure.

Speaker 1: 2:09

So much going on in the world. Just yesterday I was seeing the news articles about the earthquake in Morocco. Oh my god.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Yes, yes, I saw that when I woke up this morning. I think, yeah, when I woke up this morning for Fajr, I'm like, oh my god, it's global warming. For sure because, like, why would Morocco all of a sudden start having earthquakes?

Speaker 1: 2:30

I know it takes the worst one in 120 years. So I mean lifetime goes with the heathes.

Speaker 2: 2:38

Yeah, thanks to them, we, you know a lot of coverage, I mean, I mean, I mean All right.

Speaker 1: 2:46

So to get into the podcast topic of the day Senegalese motherhood. I mean, that's what this whole podcast is about. So I want to start off by asking you, kordu, how would you describe Senegalese motherhood in a few sentences?

Speaker 2: 2:59

For me, senegalese motherhood is really about love, strength and a deep reverence for tradition. For me, there's a balance of nurturing discipline and also instilling values that really honor our heritage, especially when you are not your Senegalese mother, that's not in Senegal. So, me, instilling culture and traditions is really important, because our kids spend all of their time with you. Know people that are not part of the culture, and they are not. If you live in a community where there are not a lot of Senegalese people or where they don't have the opportunity to connect with Senegalese people, for me it's very important to instill that in them. So yeah, I don't know, like that's. That's how I see it.

Speaker 1: 4:10

So, in trying to instill those traditions and values, what are some actions that you take, like in your everyday life or just in general, to make sure that they are appreciating everything that you know is good and comes with our culture?

Speaker 2: 4:27

You know, I make sure that first of all they have a connection with my family. So I don't have family here at all. I have one uncle that lives in Detroit and then I have, you know, nieces and nephews, but, like in Austin, I don't have family. But we do have like a small community of people here and I make sure that whenever there's events that they you know, that I attend with my kids, that they see other Senegalese kids and that they, you know, have Senegalese friends.

Speaker 2: 5:03

So that's something I try to do but make sure that they are also connected to my family, like that we're calling and doing FaceTime calls, that they are having conversations with family all the time, but then just like having constant, not reminders, maybe, reminders of the culture, like around, surrounding us in the house or playing Senegalese music, watching Senegalese shows, but also telling them about the culture, about where I'm from, about like what it was growing up in Senegal, about what's important and what are the differences between our culture and the American culture, things like that. I mean, as a parent, you try, but then the kids, you know, do whatever and decide and take their own path, but I do try my hardest to expose them to the culture and constantly remind them of values, because you know we are in a country where a lot of the values we have, they are not shared values with the people that they are friends with or go to school with. So I just try to expose them to Senegalese culture.

Speaker 1: 6:25

I love that. I think that's a very realistic approach where you know you put your best foot forward, you do the best that you can and then you know you let you know, kind of the cookies crumble how they may, because I think that's something at least for me growing up and now that I have my own baby, I'm trying to find that balance of how much do I want to tell them and control and do all these things because they just letting them also have their own experiences Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 6:55

Yeah, that's absolutely very important to do that. So, in general, like Senegalese and African, like African in general, I'd say way of parenting is just you do whatever I say, you do. But we have to realize that, like, as parents, we do our best, I mean we try our best and we made mistakes too right, Because there's no handbook on how you parent so you just try, and after that you just got to be able to let them make their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

Speaker 2: 7:34

So you know, that's something I try to do like just control myself and not try to dictate everything in their lives and what they need to do. But you know, mine are still young, but I'm trying.

Speaker 1: 7:51

No, I'm telling you, it's a journey. Even though mine is only eight months, I'm thinking about that already, like, okay, what kind of parents do I want to be? And it's a trade off between how you interact with them in the younger years versus what kind of relationship you'll have with them.

Speaker 2: 8:09

You're going to have in the future. Yeah, I mean, these younger years matter too, but like would you say for your experience growing up here? I guess you grew up here, right, I did. I came here when I was eight, right? So did your parents raise you as if you were in Senegal in terms of values and rules, or were they more like you know, like more western type of education, more lenient on certain things?

Speaker 1: 8:49

No, I would say, my parents are very, very traditional, even to this day. I always tell them like you guys came here 20 years ago and you still act like you're in Senegal, I feel like growing up and it wasn't as prevalent or I guess I wasn't as conscious of it growing up, because at the time you know, when you're a child or when you're a teenager, a lot of things just get told to you. It wasn't until I became an adult and felt like, oh, I finally should be able to have agency over my own life and be able to advocate for myself and make my own decisions, that you start to realize, wow, there's still a hold on me. You know, my parents still don't expect me to act as if I was raised in Senegal to make decisions, as if I have the same experience as someone in Senegal. The things that you're exposed to here, the things that you see, they have an influence on how you make decisions and how you want to live your life.

Speaker 1: 9:47

So to this day, I still feel like there's a gap between how I see motherhood and how I see that parenting should go, versus their experience, and, of course, my experience is heavily influenced by what I've seen here. So I see like, oh, parents sitting down and talking with kids about certain topics, seeing it as taboo, whereas for them their experience is still purely like this is how a Senegalese parent should act with their child.

Speaker 2: 10:14

So we have those classes? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I hear you. I mean for them also. It's even though they are in a foreign country. That's all they know. Right For them also. They're hanging on to those traditions and those cultures. It's hard to like just switch and you know, let go and give you the freedom of making your own decisions and things like that, because that's just like the Senegalese way of parenting. So it's not easy for them to do that for sure.

Speaker 1: 11:00

They definitely don't adopt the win in Rome notion, they still. I think even if they were here 50 years, they would still act this way. It's not good or bad, or either it just is, I think. For me, though, what I try to do is kind of I try to be as realistic as possible. I think that's one way of mitigating like disappointment If you bring your children here, or if your children were born here. There has to be an acceptance factor of like okay, the reality that they're going to face is very different from maybe what I've been to Very different, yeah, very different, just anticipating that I think what they are.

Speaker 2: 11:41

Yeah, absolutely, you're right, yep.

Speaker 1: 11:47

So, Kodra, if you could tell your 15 year old self about Senegalese motherhood, what kind of heads up would you give her to prepare for?

Speaker 2: 11:55

I would say that, like all motherhood in general just not just Senegalese motherhood that is a journey of continuous learning and being able to adapt, embracing, like the wisdom of our parents, our ancestors, but also really trust in your intuition. It's okay to seek help and advice from your elders, from your moms, your aunts, your uncles, but, just like, give yourself some grace. You're going to make some mistakes as a parent. You are going to like reproduce the same, probably some of the same mistakes that your own parents made, your own mother made. Definitely I try to catch myself. I'm like, oh my God, like when I'm yelling and screaming okay, maybe that's not, oh, no, maybe you should approach us this way, but I am not afraid. Don't be afraid to admit when you were wrong and just establish a relationship of trust and like be like openness, that your kids know that they can always talk to you about anything. Really, it's not going to be an easy journey, but just be able to learn from your mistakes at the mother and there's no handbook to this and give yourself some grace.

Speaker 1: 13:35

I like that. It definitely is a journey and it's not until you're kind of going through it that you realize one. This is for the rest of my life, mother. It's it, that's it. But I like that last point you made about kind of being humble when it comes to making mistakes, because I think that's something we don't get much of. I don't know about other African countries, but Senegalese countries definitely. I remember I was on the phone with my parents, just FaceTiming, so they could see my daughter, and she was like just crying and I was like, oh, balma, balma, like I was saying sorry, I was jokingly because I had I think I had said something and I'm like, oh, she doesn't like when you tell her you know things. I was just joking. My dad was like, oh, don't, don't apologize to her, it's not good for her.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Oh yeah, I do hear that a lot.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Bahua Simuam I did not, I didn't expect that to be the response. Yeah, yeah, there's one. I was joking, but two, it did make me pause. And then I had to go in like, and I think that's something we do too in our culture, I mean in our generation, excuse me, is we do a lot of research. So I go to Google and I type like I apologize, I just want to end of it.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I was like what is the?

Speaker 1: 14:56

ruling on this. But I think that is a a a pull, that we have like a push pull relationship between the religion and the culture too. So I like that point you made about just accepting, even if you're not sitting your child down and saying, hey, I made this mistake, but you as a parent, being understanding of the fact that you could make mistakes, that you're not, you know, omnipotent, you don't know everything Absolutely. Um, that's interesting. That's an interesting point you made that made me think about that interaction with my dad.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, senegalese parents do not apologize, no, so that's a. And then we don't discuss things as well. We throw everything under the rug.

Speaker 2: 15:39

So, like when you're here, I feel like in the US and the West in general, like France or whatever, people talk about a lot about childhood traumas and, oh, I was so scarred by this card by that. So it always makes me think, you know, I sit down and think back and I was like and and I'm like, wow, like as Senegalese kids erased by Senegalese parents, the amount of trauma. But then I I never hold, I just like, think about it lightly, it's not that serious to me, like, but if I really sit down and think about it, you think about, wow, how parents, like, like people, parents beat up their kids and stuff like that. That's really really a lot of trauma there. But we don't think about it that way, right, we've just, it's just normal, right that for us, I mean, I don't know about this newer generation, right, you and I, you and I are not part of the same generation, but when you think about it nowadays, you're like, wow, that was real life. Like trauma, slash, abuse.

Speaker 1: 16:52

So, yeah, yeah, so I actually want to double click on something you said about not taking it too seriously. I think I myself struggle with that, because I'm like how could that have happened? And it's not that I've gone through this super traumatic experience. I don't want that to be like. I think, just in general, though, there are people like me who have gone through maybe just like mild, like ambiguous, like could that have been emotional abuse? Maybe, maybe not. But then there are folks who have truly gone through just abuse, like straight up abuse, and now, as adults, they struggle with that relationship with their parents. They struggle to see their parents in a nice light. How would you, what kind of advice would you have around that, and how did you get to a point where you were able to not take things so seriously when it comes to how you were raised?

Speaker 2: 17:46

I would say that in those situations, what makes it even harder is that, like I said, we don't talk about things right, everything is like pushed under the rug, right?

Speaker 2: 18:00

I think that therapy is definitely something that helps, because your usually your parents sending at least parents or African parents do not allow like a safe space where you would, ok, say, you know, let's talk about these things that happened. Yeah, and let me tell you what, how I felt about these things. Usually I'm not going to say all sending at least parents or all African Usually they don't allow you those spaces where you can actually talk about these things that have happened and that have deeply affected you, right? So therapy, I would say, is what would help, or maybe insist on having those conversations. But for me, I'm taking it lightly because, just, I don't know how to explain it, because I guess there's nothing else to do, right? Because I know that there will never come a time where the like your parents, would just be OK, I am sorry for these things.

Speaker 2: 19:08

And, and again, I, I, I think that they were just trying to do the best, like it was just the culture, that's just how they didn't know any better, that's just how you know they think that, ok, if you were your child, he's going to, he or she is going to listen and they're just trying to raise a good kid, right? So, as crazy as it may sound, for me it's just like I don't hold A grudge, because I was literally whipped as a child. I'm not holding any grudges when it comes to that. I think back to it, but it's not like I'm holding a grudge. But that's just me. Maybe somebody else will be really affected by it, but that's just my nature, um, you know. But I think therapy is really good for those things.

Speaker 1: 20:01

That's very good insight and I agree on the therapy piece. I've been to therapy myself and I remember a time when, like after a couple of sessions, my therapist was like, are you here for you or for your mom? And I'm like, wait a minute. But I think there is a lot of baggage that we carry and absolutely Otherwise we're not going to have good relationships with our parents, and I don't want this to sound like African parents or Senegalese parents are just bad. That's not what it is.

Speaker 2: 20:28

No.

Speaker 1: 20:29

Difference in viewpoint right and in the pros, and so I think it's beneficial more to us. It's like you know, when they say, forgiveness is for you, not the other person.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 1: 20:39

I think this is one of those cases where coming to terms and peace with how you were raised and being thankful for the fact that you're here to talk about it I think that, in and of itself, is really huge is, you know, is going to do light years for your emotional development.

Speaker 2: 20:55

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think that's just a parenting style, is it the? Best parenting style? No, it's not. But it's not just Senegalese parents that. You know it's. You know you can find it here too, with Americans too. It's just like a style of parenting. But I think we just have to be open to you know having different approaches and you know listening to kids, and I mean it's not easy.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Like being a parent, I think, is the hardest job ever. It's the most rewarding one, but like I do one before. If you told me I never like before, like having kids. I never want to be a parent. I don't want as a mother. You're always looked at as a woman. You're always looked at when you say like you're, it's frowned upon. When a woman says I don't ever want kids Before, I don't think I would have understood. Yeah, if someone told me I don't want kids, I'd be like what is like what.

Speaker 2: 22:00

But I can see why someone wouldn't want that for themselves, because it's a huge responsibility. Like you, never, even when your kids grow up and go and have their own kids, their own lives. It's just like the constant worry are they doing good? Like for me? They're your responsibility forever, even though they're gonna be adults living their own lives. I don't think I'll ever stop worrying about my kids. So I understand the people that just wanna live life and not have to. Maybe they have a dog or a cat. I wouldn't change anything. I would not want to be a mother. But I can understand people that decide Like my daughter yes, I mean, she's like I am not sure I will have kids because she's like the life I want to live. I don't. So she's asking me will you be disappointed if I don't give you grandkids? I said, yes, I would be, but I'm not gonna force you to have kids. But yeah, she said she doesn't know yet if she'll have. She wants to travel. She said she doesn't want the responsibility. I said, okay, yes, I mean.

Speaker 1: 23:15

I'm in that same boat where I, too, understand when people say they don't wanna have kids. It's a huge responsibility and I'm at the point now where, with one baby, I'm like maybe I'll be okay with just this one, Like I hope they don't hear this and like wait, you don't want me. No, that's not the case at all, but it's a lot of work and it's a huge responsibility. Your life changes a whole one age when you have a baby and so, and it's a lifelong responsibility, like we talked about. So I completely understand what people are like.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Maybe this is not what I want. And to be unsure too, I think it's safe to be unsure and I think that your daughter vocalized that to you because you didn't shut her down and say, no, I definitely need you know. Obviously that would not be the response of a lot of people, so I couldn't do for that, and I like that you guys are having conversations about it because it's not something that you know. You wait until she's 25, married, and then you have a conversation. We tend to do that a lot in our culture have conversations with you.

Speaker 2: 24:19

When are you guys having a kid? When are you giving me grandkids? I mean, I would love grandkids. I wanted to have five kids, but let me tell you, when I had one no, not, I think, yeah, like the first one or the second, I think second one really my son was like, okay, this is it.

Speaker 2: 24:37

But I think it has also to do with the fact that I am here and not in Senegal. So the support you get, like in Senegal, you have your house help, right. So you, I would have had my family, like the support, the burden, like I don't want to call it burden, but like the what you have, everything you have to do yourself, makes it so hard. I think if I lived in Senegal, maybe I would have had more than two, but I just think that you know, here, daycare, doing just everything yourself and having no one to help, I think that's what made me okay, say two, that's it. And I was lucky. Thank a lot that I have one boy, one girl and I'm like okay, that's it, I have one of each, that is it. But I think if I was in Senegal, I had help, surrounded by family. Maybe I would have had like three, four you know so yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:37

Definitely, definitely. I can see that, because here I mean doing everything by yourself. It's not easy, so you automatically start being like, you start calculating, like wait a minute, and the cost too.

Speaker 2: 25:50

The cost too. So yeah, I have.

Speaker 1: 25:56

I consider myself a feminist, and so I have a gender related question for you. How would you view gender roles in your household, do you? You mentioned having one boy, one girl. How do you balance that with, like, the Senegalese culture and how we typically do things with, which is very patriarchal?

Speaker 2: 26:13

You know I am. Everyone works like. Cause. You know, growing up in Senegal, the girls in the household would be doing everything, right Brothers are. That was not my case, my brother, you know. When we did grommets on Sundays, everyone was working. It was not just the girls, but usually in Senegal the boys in the household don't do anything. All the chores fall on the girls. So I try to make sure.

Speaker 2: 26:46

You know, my son is younger than my daughter, but everyone works, everyone participates. But like he has tendencies of like. I was just having this. We were just me and my daughter. We're just having this conversation with him where he's saying oh, girl, like we're talking about girl soccer, cause he plays soccer and like I'm like you, the way you're talking is just like very macho. I said no, no, no, no, no, no. So I'm always correcting, I'm teaching him okay, how do you speak to girls? How don't like? I'm constantly correcting Cause it's my job to make sure that he doesn't go out there and just be a jerk and be a cause. If I let it go, I think like I can really see him being this macho as walking around and thinking that guys are better than like.

Speaker 2: 27:39

So yeah, I think, as parents, you just have to. You are the one that creates that balance. You make sure that they are equal. In the house Everybody does chores, but also I'm trying to frame his mind and just like it's a lot, because he's this boy, like the stuff he says, I'm like no, like let's have a debate, and he loves to debate.

Speaker 2: 28:03

But yeah, I think as parents we'd have to instill those values and make sure that, especially as parents, because I don't want my child to, in the future, have a wife and not be the best gentleman that he can be. I think that falls on me as a mother. So I try, we'll see how. We'll see how he turns out, because sometimes he says things I'm like no, no, no, but yeah, and they're influenced by like they have friends because they don't. The majority of their time they don't spend it with me, with the family, they're out there in school, they're talking to their friends, they're on TikTok or whatever. So it's hard to control, like what kind of media they consume, like you can't control everything, so anyway, so it's not.

Speaker 1: 28:56

That's a hard balance because as they get older, like you said, they're spending less time at home and more time with friends and naturally they're going to start developing these ideas. But I think, you like, when I was listening to your story, one thing that really stuck with me and I want to make sure I implement this in my life too is like just constant communication If you know of something, you can't rectify it right. So if you guys weren't talking and you weren't paying attention to the things he's saying, you wouldn't be able to have a conversation about it, and I really like it because we have to like.

Speaker 1: 29:26

In this day and age, I feel like we just have to always be talking.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Yeah, absolutely, because, like you never know what kind of ideas like they get from school, from their friends and everything like the things. That's why, like it has to be open communication.

Speaker 1: 29:42

Yeah, Because, yeah, let our guards down so our kids can talk to us about anything.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Yeah, that's the. I know it's hard. Sometimes they say stuff that may be shock you. I try to control myself to not, you know, say what, like screaming, like just probing, and then being able to have those conversations where you kind of you know, give them your point of view and try to understand where they are coming from. And I mean it's hard.

Speaker 1: 30:15

Definitely not easy, even like sibling relationship. Like my younger siblings, I try to toe the line between like being that cool sister that they can talk to versus like the second parent. You know, I think I saw a video someone had made a tick talk about it where there were like me trying to control my face when my little sister tells me something. I'm like wait, you're going over the line now.

Speaker 1: 30:39

Like this balance of all these like relationship dynamics that we have, but especially between parent and child, it's like never want to be that helicopter parent who stifles their development, but, at the same time, our jobs, at the end of the day, is to protect this human being and, to you know, make sure they're secure. Yeah, it's just a big responsibility. It is, it is for sure. It is All right. So I have one last question for you, and so that is what is one tradition that you would completely banish and what is one that you will keep no matter what, at least to the best of your ability when it comes to the Senegalese culture, one that I would keep is just like how.

Speaker 2: 31:23

How do you keep your family? Just like how we, as families, we always eat together and spend time together, Like if you go to a Senegalese family, right, and in Senegal most of the time all meals are spent together.

Speaker 2: 31:43

And in my house, growing up like the early, like first eight, I think nine years of my life I grew up in like we were in my grand, like the family house, family house like on my mother's side, you know. So we were part of the bigger family and the best times for me were like around the lunch bowl, bowl and just like eating, but like having those conversations and connecting and laughing and spending time together. So like that togetherness and spending time with family and making sure that there are those are those moments where you sit down and as a family and talk and share. So I like that, yeah, having having that, that family time together. I don't know if I see that's tradition. I don't know if it's tradition, but that's what came to mind.

Speaker 2: 32:44

One tradition I would banish, I don't know, I don't, I don't know. I would say the one where the grownup is always right. Like I stay in a child's place, the grownup is always right, like, yeah, holiday and plus I don't know how to say it where you have no say in anything. Yeah, If.

Speaker 2: 33:13

I'm, if I'm talking about being a parent, right, that's something I would banish, where we're just like the fact that you don't allow kids to express themselves, we're not helping them because when they go out there in the world, when they are in the workplace, you know, you're not helping them because when they go out there in the world, when they are in the workplace and I was like like this when I started working I never express myself like you're always afraid of consequences, so never. You would always say yes to everything, pretty much Yep, and never, always afraid to in front of like authority.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:58

To say how you feel, what you feel when you disagree with someone. I'd say that's what I would banish.

Speaker 1: 34:05

I would echo both of those things. I probably need to give this thought some thought on my own as well, but just hearing you talk about it, it fully resonated with me because especially that last part about how they didn't play so how they like has repercussions. As an adult, where you're very docile or you're not able to advocate for yourself and you can down to like salary negotiation, you might think that whatever is given to you is just what you need to accept. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 34:33

So much disservice that we do when we don't let kids express themselves and I think, oh, this is like going into like a dark path, but like, even when it comes to like essay, like kids feel comfortable saying things but I feel like because we stifle them so much, sometimes they don't even feel comfortable expressing when they're going through traumatic experiences like that.

Speaker 2: 34:53

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 34:57

Well, thank you so much, Kodoo. I am so pleased with you, thank you. I hear my baby crying in the background. Yeah, oh, it's so good to have you, but it was such an amazing interview. I really appreciate it, thank you.

Speaker 2: 35:11

Thank you for having me. It was great spending time with you I follow you so much.

Speaker 1: 35:17

I mean I follow you on social media and I just love seeing how you parent. I can I feel like I can see how you parent through your page and it's because it's done with love and transparency and, like your kids, they look like they have so much fun around you and I was like I just really need to talk to her about Senegalese mother.

Speaker 2: 35:33

I feel like she's oh, you're so, so nice. It's not always, you know, it's not always fun and all of that. I try, I try. I do make a lot of mistakes, but I do talk to them and we do communicate a lot.

Speaker 2: 35:50

I have things I need to work on as well as a mother. It's not. It is so far from being perfect, and I do make a lot of mistakes myself. I have a very short temper. I'm not a patient. I may seem like a patient person. I am a big Aries, not patient at all. So but my kids and I, we talk, yeah, and I. One thing I do all the time is apologize and say, oh, maybe I shouldn't have yelled at you. No, maybe I shouldn't have yelled like that. But you know, what should you have done better yourself?

Speaker 1: 36:23

as well.

Speaker 2: 36:24

But, yeah, we I mean it's not perfect over here, yeah. So, um, yeah, you just do your best and um, you know it's not easy, but yeah, thank you for your kind words.

Speaker 1: 36:37

Of course, of course. Thank you, and I want to thank all my listeners for tuning in to this episode and with that I will give you a rendezvous for the next episode. Thank you all, yeah.