The Jeune Maman Podcast
The Jeune Maman Podcast is an audio-journey of the intricacies of Senegalese-American motherhood. Host Aissatou Guisse reflects on her own experiences and shares those of others around her, with the goal of sharing information, imparting wisdom with the help of guest speakers, dispelling myths, and much more!
The Jeune Maman Podcast
E24: Cross-Cultural Motherhood - African Moms Discuss FGM, Pregnancy, and Community
In this episode, Aissatou has a candid discussion with guest, Hawa, on #FGM, #Pregnancy while moving to the US, and #taboosubjects within their African communities that have made them who they are today.
FGM Prevalence:
More than 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone FGM.
An estimated 3 million girls are still at risk, every single year.
The majority of girls are cut before they turn 15 years old.
No documented health benefits for female circumcision, only harm!!!
Learn More here: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/female-genital-mutilation
Video Chapters:
0:59 Intro
1:30 Moving to US While Pregnant
2:18 A Quick Troll on France
3:55 "Would You Rather?" Game
7:30 Giving Birth In A Foreign Country
11:05 Taboo Subjects in West African Community
14:00 Epidural Discussion (TRIGGER WARNING: FGM)
19:00 Nurtured Roots by Hawa
24:45 Outro
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Hello, hello listeners, and welcome back to the Jin Mama podcast, where we talk about all things pregnancy, postpartum, motherhood, tips and tricks and more from a Senegalese, american perspective. I'm your host, aisatou Giusei, and today I have a very special guest for you guys. Her name is Hawa, she's a mama four and she has so much to share with us. So, without further ado, hawa, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, hi Aisatou. So my name is Hawa. I am in my 30s, I have four kids, so I moved to the US in 2012. I was pregnant seven, eight months pregnant with my first child.
Speaker 1:Yes, how was that experience? Like? I know, we have questions to get through, but just as soon as I'm like wait a minute, it was crazy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, crazy was the word. Okay, moving to a country that you don't know is that's interesting? Yes, or interesting because when you don't know the ups and downs, how it works, yeah, sometimes it can be frustrating. Did you move here with family? Or Nope, just okay with my husband. My husband lived here at the time. Yes, so I left France for the US. Very different countries, different, I'm telling you. Different countries. It's like black and white.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I've been to France once for like a four month project and it was interesting. I love the food, which I know some people hate the food, but I like the food, but I do not like the French people. I'm sorry. I think that it was this they're not the most friendly. Let me say that.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, I mean, french people are always like, they're always complaining, yeah, like there's no grateful. They're not grateful or anything, but they're always complaining. And my first experience, when I went back to France, like seven months after I gave birth, I had my stroller and you know it's common to use transportation yes, I'm trained and stuff and you know there will be stairs and people like wouldn't literally help me with the stroller. I would struggle, oh my goodness, these Americans are so nice compared to the French. That is something yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they're trying to mind their business and it's gone to the extreme or what it is, but definitely a very interesting set of people.
Speaker 2:It is, and it's when you leave the country that you realize that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I completely agree. There's something, that's something, something's off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's off.
Speaker 1:Oh well, thanks for that intro and telling us a little bit about yourself. I'm sure we'll get to know more about you throughout the interview, but for now, what we're going to do is play my infamous Would you Rather? Game. So I'm going to ask you two scenarios and you give me which one you would rather do, and they are related to having kids. Okay, awesome so the first one is would you rather wrestle with your baby to give them food or try to get them into their car seat Food?
Speaker 2:I'm not a wrestler. The car seat no thanks, I hate the car seat no thanks.
Speaker 1:Would you rather try to get them into that car seat again or give them a bath?
Speaker 2:Give them a bath.
Speaker 1:Okay For my baby. I'd rather try to get her into the car seat. The bath thing we don't get along when we take a bath.
Speaker 2:Oh, how funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she hates it. Oh my goodness, she literally will cry and like she'll stiffen her back. So you're trying to make sure she's safe and she doesn't care. She just wants to get out of the water. I don't know what is. What's going on?
Speaker 2:Wow, it will change. My third one was the same but, he turned one, one and a half, he would go and ask for a bath, literally.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm hoping for. I try to make the water comfortable. I use, like these, nice scents around me so she can be comfortable, and she just does not yet Maybe when we get to the one and a half two-year mark, she'll end up liking baths.
Speaker 2:Chewy and chewy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you rather watch kids cartoons all day or spend all day at the park with your kids?
Speaker 2:Hmm, that's interesting. We're gonna watch a cartoon.
Speaker 1:Cartoon yes. Do your kids have a particular cartoon that they like?
Speaker 2:Yes, my daughter actually, she loves baby shark. Oh, and it's getting my nerves.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of parents share that sentiment.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I think it was fun and stuff, but it's annoying.
Speaker 1:It's getting annoying.
Speaker 2:yes, With Cocoa Melon and stuff.
Speaker 1:It's annoying. There are some African cartoons that my daughter has discovered because she likes to click on the remote and just go everywhere, and those are actually pretty cute and there's a couple that I like myself, so sometimes I find myself playing it, even if she's not watching TV.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll share them with you.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure.
Speaker 1:Would you rather deal with a diaper blowout or try to get your baby to go to sleep?
Speaker 2:The blowout. The blowout Because going to sleep is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:It can be awful sometimes.
Speaker 1:My daughter both of these. I'd rather do neither of them because she's hard to get to go to sleep. But the reason the diaper blowout, the reason I don't like it, is because it turns into laundry. It turns into all these other things. So, honestly, they're both pretty horrible options.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm gonna deal with the blowout.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I don't blame you. And then, finally, would you rather have surprise triplets or surprise baby at age 15? Age 15? Yes, no, thanks.
Speaker 2:So you'd take the triplets? Yes, I'm gonna take the triplets.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thank you for indulging me in that game. We can now move on to the interview questions. So I know you gave us a little bit in your intro around moving from France. Could you tell us a little bit more about that initial experience of being here, having your first child in the US, away from family, even though you were with your husband? How was that like for you? I know a lot of my listeners are first-time moms who are in the US or are in a foreign country by themselves, away from family.
Speaker 2:So when I came here we were in the state of Rhode Island, so I had no family whatsoever and my husband worked, so I used to stay home by myself. In states like Rhode Island sometimes they don't have sidewalks, and in Europe I was used to sidewalks. I could go outside and walk, just like in Atlanta. Sometimes some areas don't have sidewalks. The first week I was trying to recover from the flight because it was exhausting. So after settling down we tried to go to the first appointments. So I spoke a tiny bit of English not a lot, so it was like a struggle. There's a barrier of communication with me and the doctor, so thank God they had a translator on site and we tried to communicate back and forth. The doctor was very nice. She tried to explain things like how it would work, and it was frustrating because I didn't know the system. Everything was new. I used to come back and forth but I don't know how the health system worked here and I knew that when I would deliver I would be alone. No family member, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's tough, that's definitely. I'm getting chills as I'm listening to you talk Because I think even for someone who is familiar with the system, like me I came to the US at age eight, so I grew up here and even me, you know, going to the system for the first time was very nerve-wracking. I didn't know what questions to ask, I didn't know what to expect when it was time to deliver. You know, you always see it in movies where people kind of go into spontaneous labor and they're like it's time to go to the hospital, but in reality that's not how it always works. So I definitely empathize with you on the point of that barrier. I think the barrier exists even if there is no language barrier, Because the medical language is different than the English language, and then when you layer on top of that, you know the French versus English. I can definitely imagine how nerve-wracking that would be. So I mean I commend you for going through that experience.
Speaker 2:And you know, at the time there weren't like support groups like there are nowadays. So there was internet, you would Google here and there. But you know, sometimes Google, you would Google and then it's gonna like Frighten you yeah, so sometimes it's best not to go and look for some answers.
Speaker 2:So, and as a West African background, you know there's a taboo subject. So my mom didn't talk to me like about, like about how it would happen, like what I need to do. Yeah, you know there's like a taboo subject, like some stuff that they don't talk about. Yeah, you know that's something that I wish she would have told me about.
Speaker 1:I Agree with that completely.
Speaker 1:I think we spend so much time in our culture talking about how you should be strong and how you you got this just because you're a woman and while that is very empowering, it's also Not the most helpful at times when you just need to know specific answers, like this thing that I'm feeling. What does that mean? Or, yeah, you know our moms. They've had multiple kids most of us and so you would think that that knowledge, that anecdotal experience that they have, they'll share with us freely. But there's also a barrier there too, with the taboo that you mentioned.
Speaker 1:I don't know, for some reason we don't openly discuss these things in our community. But when you're going through it, that's really what you need is that community of people who either have been there or can at least just be like hey, I'm here for you. Yeah, oh, my goodness, the empowerment thing for me was big. My mom I remember when I was pregnant and she basically the message throughout the whole time was that I needed to show how strong I was. I needed to not, you know, appear weak in front of my husband in the delivery.
Speaker 2:I don't know what are you talking about? That's a big one, because, like you said, women are supposed, especially like West African women, like we have to show how strong we are. We are not. We are not allowed to show how vulnerable we are. No, and you know, and we need this support because you're, at the end of the day, we are all human being. Yes, it's like you know they're gonna say to your husband oh, don't cry, don't cry, but you need to let your emotions out In order, like, to start over. You need to let your emotions out. You need to talk to someone.
Speaker 1:I Completely agree with that 100%, especially on them and the male side. Maybe I'll get a guest to come in and talk about that, but I think it's like you mentioned. It's a very normal and human emotion to show, crying in vulnerability, but definitely during pregnancy it's a very vulnerable time. You don't know if you're gonna make it or not. It's a very dangerous journey. So, I think we have to just put more warmth around it and more understanding, and not shame people for For going through certain things.
Speaker 2:I think we are the generations that are coming up.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:We are gonna do. Our mom did the best that they could because they were raised the same way. But we are going gonna do the work and you are going to help our daughters and it's gonna change. It's not gonna change overnight, but you know, step by step.
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree as a generational change. Now I have a question for you around something that I know. When I was pregnant, I was like no, I don't want it, I don't want it. And I ended up getting it. I'm the epidural I was, so I don't know why I was so bent on not getting it. I think it speaks. It's a little bit related to what we just talked about, that having to be strong, but I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:So a little backstory. I used to live. I was born and raised in France, so I lived in Guinea, west Africa, for four years. So during these four years I was how do you say it? The exhesion.
Speaker 1:Oh, are we talking? The female exhesion? Yes, yes, the female exhesion.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, so I had the experience and it left like a mark on my brain. So the pain I don't like how to describe the pain Alhamdulillah, everything like I'm feeling better now. But when I was pregnant with my first, the first thing that I had in my mind is I'm taking deep petrol, I'm not gonna go through that pain again.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, oh no, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Ooh, you okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that it just took me back because I haven't gone through it. I've never been through it, alhamdulillah, but it's a topic that I'm passionate about. In university I wrote a 16 page thesis on it, wow, and it's one of the reasons that kind of launched me on this path of female empowerment In African society. When you talk about feminism, people think that you just are talking about economic feminism, and sometimes all it's about is just being seen as a human being, someone with rights, and so I won't derail the conversation, but I just got emotional thinking about that, because it's already hard to go through parenthood, to go through pregnancy and to have to think in the back of your mind I don't want to experience this pain again. So I never thought about epidural being something like on the same lines as that. You know we always talk about it as just oh, I just want the experience to be easier, easier, easier.
Speaker 1:But for some it's not even about that experience being easier. It's about trying to not re-trigger trauma, exactly. Yeah, okay, I'm sorry, I'm just going to wipe my hand. So you decided to. You wanted the epidural so you wouldn't have to re-experience that With the language barrier. Were your doctors able to explain the process to you, whether it was through office visits or in the moment, or did you feel like that also was a challenge to go through, because the epidural can be an intricate process?
Speaker 2:They explained it to me via the office visits. So it was, this section was all good, like. They were like very comprehensive. They knew that we wouldn't be able to communicate well because of the language barrier, but because the translator was here, it made it easier for me and for them to.
Speaker 1:Okay, now I have a question on that. I know the giving birth experience can be so intimate. How was that? Having a translator around the entire time?
Speaker 2:I loved it.
Speaker 1:Oh good.
Speaker 2:Yes, I loved it. Good, sometimes it can be a pain in it, but at the end I liked it because I was able to tell how I feel and they would give me something to feel better. Okay, that's good. If there was no translator, I don't know how it would have been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. At that point that was more important than anything else is you have to get to the experience.
Speaker 2:It was not like I'm going to take my phone and Google translate and everything.
Speaker 1:The data was limited at the time too, I know, yeah, exactly, I want to shift gears a little bit now and talk about nurtured roots. So I want to give you an opportunity to tell my listeners about what that is and how they can plug in.
Speaker 2:So the nurtured roots. It's a brand that I created last year. I haven't officially launched yet, but it's designed to help moms, especially new moms, to accompany them through the postpartum period. So what I experienced like coming in this country, finding myself all alone in a country that I don't know, that's frustrated and I want to be able to offer moms, support, a community and offer them holistic care, and by holistic care in all means, I also have planned some African traditions, terrible deeds, so I want to help them connect with African heritage, because our heritage is super rich, but sometimes we don't know, or our parents don't know, or sometimes it's our grandmothers who have all these remedies that are good, by the way, for us, because sometimes, when I look at medicine, it can have some side effects, just like the epitro side notes we didn't talk about. We didn't talk about on the back, the backing.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, it's so bad and is it life long? Because I thought it was gonna be painful for a little bit and then I'll be good. But this thing is my back hurts every day now.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm fine, but a couple hours ago like my lower back was aching, yeah, and side note, I don't know if it's because because last year around March I stopped taking on any kind of contraceptions. Okay, so I'm now taking my temperature. So ever since then I'm feeling like I'm getting my body back and I'm feeling like all the pains now.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that's interesting. I'm sure there are so many side effects that we aren't even aware of when it comes to all these things we put in our bodies. And as women, it seems like as soon as you get to that point of having kids, to the point that you hit menopause that period of your life you're just ingesting a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, definitely. And even when, like sometimes, I can be dealing with a headache and I would I won't take Tylenol, and a few weeks ago I think there was a note about a Tylenol which is not good for pregnant women. Yeah, which is kind of like hmm, yeah, you know you're gonna go there, they're gonna recommend oh, you got pain, take Tylenol, it's safer for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they tell you like it's better than ibuprofen, but now they're saying neither one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. So what I would suggest is to go not to go all natural, because sometimes we do need antibiotics to heal, but when it's not necessary, find something natural.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that's why I like torture roots. I can't wait for it to to launch and for folks to hear about it, because that is exactly what we need in our community. When we talk about support and having someone there, even if they're not physically next to you, but just knowing that there's a resource that you can tap into, I think our sisters would really really appreciate that. I think you made a good point to around how some of the knowledge is passed down generationally, but because we're not close to home, we may not be privy to it the way sisters back home would be.
Speaker 2:Yes, and sometimes you know it's keeping within a household, which is, I find, is not fair to some people, because a few years back I didn't know about like all of these herbs, like the sep. I don't know if you know sep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard of it recently. Someone told me to try it for my back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know about that. Yeah, I had like no idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of things that we just don't know about and they have nutritional values. But I think I think part of that I'm gonna challenge it a little bit I think part of it is that in our culture we're told to do things but we're not told why, and sometimes you can piece two and two together, but a lot of the times it's like, oh, you should eat, and read like so good, yeah, just do it, and then I don't know. For me, I like to know why, and I think a lot of people are similar in that, in that way that they just want to know why. I think about like a kid who's too, and you tell him to do something and they're like why, why, why? And it's an inquisitive part of who we are. So I think the more we can and I think too for my health, health standpoint the more we can put the why behind certain things. It can help people orient to the best solution faster so that they don't have to go through trial and error.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, and that's something that I would like to share with people, because we need to go back to our roots.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:We need to go back to our roots. We need to go back to our holistic care, like how we used to do. You know, like I said, when I gave birth I was all alone, but then I had no one to tell me about, like you know, binding your belly or stuff like that. You know, nowadays you can find it on the internet, but back in the days you wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to find it. So I'm happy that now our people are getting out and talking, which is good for our community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely well. Thank you so much for sharing all that information with us. I'm excited for it to come out. I'll be sure to share with my listeners as well, and I'll be happy to have you back once you do launch it, so you can tell folks how they can get in contact with you and just really get into that community, because I think, more than anything, that's what we need today.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, thank you, listeners, for tuning in to today's episode. Thank you, howell, for taking the time to talk to us. We really appreciate it, and with that we'll give you a round of view for the next episode.
Speaker 2:Thank you, esa too, thank you.
